Dear John,
I’m not sure if this is the type of question you’d normally answer, but I figured I had to ask.
My husband wants to have a menage a trois with me and another man we know. I don’t know whether to entertain the idea or cry. We’ve known the guy since high school. I was the one who friends with him; my husband just recently started talking to him. I liked him well enough, until he started sending naked pictures to my husband.
He was always very flirty with me, regardless of whether I was single or not. He’s very open about his bisexuality. (He actually took my younger sister on a date yesterday. So, in that way, too, things have gotten a little weird.)
My husband had originally brought up the idea of him and this other man doing sexual things without my involvement, as well as the three of us doing a threesome. I tried discussing both options with him, but the more we talked about the whole subject, the more frustrated and insecure I felt.
I was raised by two loving mothers, so the idea of my husband possibly being bisexual doesn’t necessarily bother me. But I was also raised to believe that relationships should be monogamous in all ways, especially in regards to sex.
I’ve always prided myself on being open-minded. But I cringe at the idea of sharing my husband with anyone, whether I’m present or not. Should I be open to the things he wants to try?
P.S. My husband and I have a daughter who will be turning a year old next month.
Just to make sure I have this right: You want to be in a sexually monogamous relationship with your husband, who, with or without you, desires to sleep with a mutual friend of yours, a man who sends your husband naked pictures of himself and recently went out with your younger sister.
Wow.
So, my first question is: Have you considered selling the rights to this story? Because, you know, husbands come and go. But Jennifer Aniston playing you in a Lifetime Movie of the Week lasts forever.
Ah . . . the funny advice columnist. How I wish I were one of them. But you’re stuck with me–so let’s get down to brass tacks.
You asked if you “should” be open to fulfilling your husband’s desire for extramarital sex. I really, really don’t like anyone being coerced into doing anything they don’t want to do–and especially anything that makes them “cringe,” as you’ve said the idea of this threesome makes you do.
Also true is that there is no relevant “should” here. There are cultural traditions and conventions, certainly—-and they hardly count for nothing. But there are also a great many unconventional people in the world who are perfectly satisfied with their lives. (As an example of this, see my interview with a woman in a polyamorous marriage.)
I do believe in a universal morality; that is, I think there are some things that all people understand as right or wrong (murder and justice, for instance). I do not believe that monogamy belongs in that category of things. So, again, no “should’s” apply here.
The bottom line here is that you’ve got a decision to make. Namely, are you okay with your husband having sex outside of your marriage? If you are, then, on his way out the door, pat your husband on the back and hand him a condom.
But if you’re not okay with your husband having extramarital sex, and you’ve told him that, then he has a question for himself which he must answer. It’s the same question every person in a committed monogamous relationship sooner or later asks themselves: Is my desire to have sex outside of my relationship worth the cost of what having that sex will do to my relationship?
For now, what’s critical for you is to decide what you need, what you want, what you believe, what you think that you and your husband can and can’t live without–and, arguably above all, what you think is best for your daughter. And the only way to figure out all of that is to have an honest, heart-to-heart conversation between you and yourself, and then between you and your husband.
(Okay, well, I’ve got to tell you that I am not feeling good about the fact that your talking with your husband about all of this left you feeling frustrated and insecure. It shouldn’t have. The fact that it did tells me that this business about a threesome isn’t the real problem in your marriage. What it tells me is that you two need to see a marriage counselor, frankly. Something between the two of you that’s broken needs to be fixed. [Oh, what the heck; let me also say this: If I had to guess, right now, what the core problem is with your marriage, I’d say that your husband is a dick. I don’t like anything about the way he’s handled any of this. But that’s really more than you’ve asked me about, so I’ll shut up about that now.])
In a more immediate sense, though, do let me just say again that you must not allow yourself to get talked or persuaded into doing anything that you don’t know you’re going to be okay with. The waters into which your husband wants you to jump are rapid and deep. He can jump right into that water, if he must. But don’t you hold his hand and leap off that cliff with him if you’re not sure you’re ready for that. Because once you’ve left that solid ground, you can never return to it. Once sex happens, in other words, it can’t unhappen.
My novel, Everywhere She’s Not, is now available wherever books are sold. The reviews of it are . . . well, let’s just say people like it.
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Why visitors still use to read news papers when in this technological world the
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I think this is really good advice, John.
On the one hand, good for the husband for having an honest conversation with the wife about his desires before just jumping in and cheating. On the other hand, the conversation should probably be had before ongoing naked picture exchange/receipt. Regardless, now that the conversation about changing the relationship rules has been initiated and the wife has the information, it’s her turn to make an informed choice. She has every right to say she’s not comfortable with changing the rules of her marriage. She could also decide that after years of flirting with this guy, both she and her husband are attracted to him and they can act on it in some agreed-upon way. I have friends who were in monogamous relationships that later became polyamorous, and it seems to have worked for some and not for others. For my part, I don’t want to share, neither does my husband, and his feelings are important enough to me to forego other opportunities. In my experience, the two times I discussed a non-exclusive relationship were 1) when I was hesitant to break up with someone I didn’t really care enough about and 2) when I wanted to be with someone so much that I was willing to share, even though I didn’t want to. Ultimately, that imbalance can be pretty unhealthy, too. In the end, a relationship works best if all participants are in agreement, and willing to make whatever sacrifices they have chosen.
Personally, I am not so worried about the daughter in this. If the couple believes what they are doing is right, they can teach the daughter gradually and in an age-appropriate way about adults deciding to set the terms of their relationships, and about the importance of communication and consent. Like the conversations that will occur about same-sex marriage or any other thing that a child is exposed to, it’s a matter of finding the words to convey your values. (I was going to say “non-standard” things a child is exposed to, but there are many “normal” things, such a racism or sexual assault that could elicit difficult conversations.)
Personally, I am much more concerned about the sister dating the friend. That adds another adult into the consent equation, and to me it indicates that the friend lacks boundaries. There’s something rather incestous-feeling about it. It’s a bit creepy the way he’s flirted with the wife for ages, then after she picked someone else, he sends naked pictures to that person and also goes after her sister. It seems like behavior you might see on Game of Thrones. The guy sounds potentially toxic.
Most importantly, the wife shouldn’t participate in any sex she’s not really ok with – that’s basically date rape.
I agree with everything you’ve said, but I’m uncomfortable with your last sentence…. I believe we need to be clear about what ‘rape’ is. Rape is not someone participating in something that they dont *really* want to, ie going along with something they’re not really comfortable with, UNLESS unless they are coerced by threat of some kind of significant ‘punishment’. Rape is where someone forces someone else to have sex when they are either unable to consent or are clearly not consenting, rape would be if the wife said no & the 2 guys made her do it anyway.
Her voluntarily participating in something that shes not at heart comfortable with, would make the guys assholes certainly (given that the husband at least would be able to tell if the wife was genuinely into it), but it would NOT make the guys rapists.
Im not saying the husband handled this correctly. But all I read is that having atypical desires is unfortunately something you have no right to pursue.
I divorced my wife after a similar conversation went stale-mate. There is no answer. If your desires are atypical, you’re basically screwed.
Atypical desires are fine, but if you act on those desires without the agreement of your partner, you have violated the rules you and your partner agreed to, and you have to be prepared to lose your partner because of it. It doesn’t matter what the relationship rules are or how normal they are, if you step outside the agreed upon boundaries, you have decided that your personal desire is more important than your relationship, your loved one’s feelings, and your loved one’s trust. In a healthy relationship, all partners must be in agreement, or else it is stepping on someone.
You clearly decided that the thing you wanted was more important than the relationship you were in. Sometimes that’s what happens; someone has to make a sacrifice. You can’t please all of the people all of the time.
Man, both guys are enormous a-holes. It just seems that they want to have sex with each other and invited the girl just so she can say her husband did not cheat her because she participated. When you combine that with the fact that she just gave birth to a child, and all the stress that it gives to a woman(no matter how much the guy helps, it’s always hard) it makes the whole thing absurd.
I think there are moments in a relationship that you have to realize that your sex life won’t be ideal, either because there’s animosity, or because other factors, like a recently born child, are taking a toll. The way you deal with this tells a lot about your level of maturity and the amount of love and respect you feel for your partner.
Also to be considered is the lady’s relationship with her sister…. will that also be messed up if the threesome goes ahead…. i mean how will the sister feel if she really likes the guy & then her sister & husband have sex with him?
The husband is just wanting what he wants & letting his wife join in to make it seem more acceptable if you ask me… of course nobody did ask me, but thats just my ‘two penneth’.
I also felt the pain in the lady’s letter, this hurts. Yes the husband is a giant, dick.
Great answer. I experienced a husband who cheated. It’s possible to forgive, but the trust is never there again, and the relationship is changed forever. And the pain — the hurt of being cast aside in a moment of lust — doesn’t go away. Ever.
Agreed that the husband is being a dick.
I’m not sure that friend deserves the name “friend” either, playing around like that with someone’s family and sending dick pics when you know someone’s relationship is vulnerable is absolutely not on. The first year of the first child’s life has to be one of the hardest for a couple, everyone is getting used to new roles and everyone isn’t getting enough sleep and has a hard time feeling sexy, so preying on that need for validation is totally a dick move.
Brilliant.
“If I had to guess, right now, what the core problem is with your marriage, I’d say that your husband is a dick.” I can think of thousands of people who, at this very moment, would benefit from that insight.
For the record, when my movie is made, I want Christine Lahti to play me.
Mike! Thank you! Love you, Mr. Man.
Hilare! Love it. Also John’s assessment if the dick husband. Priceless.